9 Comments

1. 

   Brian Matzke on 18 February 2013 at 12.50 EST

   Nice list, though I think it undervalues the more melodramatic episodes like “Commencement” or “In the Shadow of Two Gunmen,” which I think I’d put above episodes like “The U.S. Poet Laureate” or “The Crackpots and These Women” (those episodes lose some points for being more obvious examples of Sorkin’s cringe-inducing sexism).

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     DuckPM on 18 February 2013 at 12.51 EST

     Actually, you’re very right about my criteria (melodrama < character) and about my concern about "The Crackpots … ", although in the case of USPL I'm okay because Laura Dean is diaphonous.

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       Andy Hom on 18 February 2013 at 13.38 EST

       On the USPL, Laura Dern’s character gives a totally implausible rationale at the end–Toby should deliver that line to her, except that he’s got the hots for her, but its still hard to buy that she has completely flipped on her role as laureate, not to mentioning devaluing poetry almost completely.

       For more balance in the later seasons, what about ‘Shutdown’, ‘Things fall apart’/’2162’ votes, ‘Election Day’ I & II or perhaps ‘Transition’? The latter ones because in terms of character, it’s a bit nice that Josh and Donna finally get together, but even better when she finally turns the tables and owns him as the adult in the relationship.

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         DuckPM on 18 February 2013 at 13.41 EST

         I thought about 2162 and I have undervalued Donna’s emergence as a competent adult in seasons 6-7. These are good choices!

         USPL is probably the weakest choice on this list.

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           Andy Hom on 18 February 2013 at 14.01 EST

           Doh! I forgot the single (double) best: ’20 Hours in America’ I & II, for one of the single best examples of Sorkin-y sentiment (you know it’s sappy, but this just makes you realize a sappy side of yourself) at the end, Donna again as the real adult, the high schooler driving them around (‘Mr. Ziegler, have you ever loved someone so much it hurts? Like, physically hurts?’), and the running banter between Toby and Josh. Okay, I’m done. I promise.

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           DuckPM on 18 February 2013 at 14.04 EST

           +1 +1 +1

           20 hours in America IS great. Yes, better than USPL.

2. 

   Pub Editor on 18 February 2013 at 13.13 EST

   Of the eleven episodes listed, 73% come from season 1 or season 2; only two episodes from season 3 and one episode from season 4 make the list. I wonder if that says something about the quality and trajectory of the show over the course of its run.

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     DuckPM on 18 February 2013 at 13.38 EST

     I think generally most folks agree that 1 and 2 were the strongest seasons and that Sorkin’s drug dependence and departure weakened the show across 3-5. I thought 6 and 7 picked back up but the problem is that after season 4 there’s so much focus on plot that individual episodes become less interesting. Something similar happened to BSG. The strongest individual eps of BSG are in 1 and to a lesser extent 2.

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       Brian Matzke on 18 February 2013 at 14.42 EST

       I agree–the last two seasons are a lot stronger than most people give them credit. In fact, I often prefer those seasons’ realism to the over-the-top sentimentality that drags down even the best of the Sorkin episodes. but it is hard to pick out individual episodes.